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[vila]

My 1962 TR4 is Commission Number CT7771 L, but I have a question about the number as it appears on the data plate.  Prior to the CT # there is a number 2, so that the number appears on the plate as 2CT7771 L.  I have never seen a TR4 for sale where it shows a Commission Plate photo that has a 2 preceding the CT#.
Any ideas on what the extra 2 is?

Bob Beers

[charley fitch]

And I have never seen a Commission plate with a number before the CT.  Is the number in the same style and size as the other numbers on this plate?  I am assuming that you are referring to an original plate and not a reproduction as one can buy and have made up.  Does your title have the "2" on it as well?
 In California we have many cars that have a "extra" plate supplied by the dealers or State of California that gives us a STC __.  The blank is filled in with the year the car was sold, regardless of when it was manufactured.  This makes for an interesting conversation when one wants to know what year the car really is. 

Charley Fitch   

[vila]

Thanks for the response Charley.

It is the original Commission Plate.

The number style is exactly the same as all the other letters and numbers.  The spacing is perfect and it is aligned perfectly with the letters and numbers that follow with one exception.

The last number which is 1 is not aligned with the preceeding #s and letters, but about 1/2 a character low.  I have seen this on numerous TR4 Commission number plate photographs before.  A lot of cars sold on ebay show this misalignment of the last digit for some reason.

If you look very closely at mine, it appears that the 2 is not stamped quite as deep.

Except for the 2, all the numbers match the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust certificate and the title.  Both do not have the 2.

The body number (8319 CT) matches the certificate also.  The TRA TR4 Judging Guidelines states the body number should be within 400 unless documented.  Mine is documented as 548 different.

Bob Beers

[charley fitch]

It is a good thing that you do not live in California with that car.  When the commission number does not exactly match the title they get all bent out of shape.  I had to go through a litany of steps and inspections because somebody put down a wrong number from that extra plate I referred to. 
And as far as I was concerned the extra plate was a totally useless piece of junk.   Of course because it was the state's idea they thought it was a great idea.

It will be interesting to see if anybody else chimes in here about seeing any other similar numbering.
Charley Fitch 

[herald948]

A leading digit such as the "2" on yours often indicates that the car was first sold in Canada, where it was common to add a single digit indicating the year in which the car was first sold.

[vila]

That makes sense, since the car originally shipped from the factory to "Standard Triumph Limited, Montreal" according to my British Motor Industry Heritage Trust certificate. 

Darn, if the 2 was put on by the dealer they did a great job of lining it up with the other digits.

Was the added 2 then considered part of the Vehicle Identification Number by the Canadian Motor Vehicle Department?

Bob Beers

[herald948]

Yes, it was!

[TR3driver]

It is a good thing that you do not live in California with that car.  When the commission number does not exactly match the title they get all bent out of shape. 

Must vary a good deal with which individual you are dealing with.  Been a few years back, but when I discovered that the commission number on my TR3A bore almost no resemblance to the one on the paperwork; the DMV just inspected the car and changed the paperwork.  No muss, no fuss.

Had more hassle with the 71/72/73 Stag I brought in from out of state, not because the paperwork didn't match but because the commission plate had obviously been changed.  In the end, though, it still worked out OK.  After two inspections by the CHP (newer cars fall under some sort of anti-fraud initiative), they fastened a new VIN plate to the door jamb and used that on my paperwork.

[charley fitch]

Randall,  I would say that it might also be some of what we individuals expect from "service" by DMV and CHP.  In my case the car was being brought into the state from Arizona but had just left California only two or so years earlier.  I suspect the number change had been done in the transfer to AZ. One person at DMV told me to go to the back and get the vehicle inspected.  There the person told me I had to go get an appointment with CHP and then proceeded to read the commission plate incorrectly--which I corrected before they left the side of the car.  The CHP guy was okay but still tried to put me on the defense for no real reason.  And then there was lots of paperwork that I had to fill out along with the CHP and that got lost by DMV.  It took quite a while to finally get it corrected and for me to get a title.  I am definitley not a fan of California DMV.
Charley Fitch   

[TR3driver]

Oh, well, that's fairly similar to my experience with the Stag then; except they handed me the paperwork (so they couldn't lose it).

Had even more fun trying to get the TR3 registered and keep the black plates.  I guess I was flat-out lucky there; after about 4 visits to the DMV office and Sacramento turning down the initial YOM application (correctly as they were not YOM plates), I apparently hit just the right combination of telling the DMV clerk they were doing it wrong and asking for a supervisor (who refused to talk to me) ... the clerk eventually just shipped the paperwork to Sacramento, who billed me another $35 for no apparent reason and approved it.  But the result was worth it, IMO

[vila]

I'm glad I live in PA. The TR4 had a Florida registration when I bought it almost 2 years ago and FL did not recognize the 2 preceeding the number and when I registered the car in PA I asked then about it and said it could not be part of the original number, and PA registed it without to 2 prefix.

Back in my US Air Force days, I remember when I bought a new 1975 Saab after I graduated from NAV School at Mather AFB.  What a pain it was registering that car in California.  In PA you use the plate off of your old trade in on you new car, but I was getting such a run around trying to register it directly in PA from CA that I finally just registered it in CA. The DMV insisted that I turn in the PA plate on my VW I was selling to a friend, and I insisted that the PA plate would be going on the Saab in 2 weeks when I got back to PA.  I can remember taking it off my VW in front of my friend and the DMV inspector, tossing it in the trunk of my new Saab, and slamming the lid down while multiple 4 letter words were coming out of my mouth.  2 weeks later the car was re-registered in PA with my old VW plate, while on my way to New Hampshire for the next 4 years.  As I recall the CA plate went directly to the garbage can.

[charley fitch]

Here is another one about CA DMV.  About two weeks ago I got a notice from CA DMV that a Stag that I  bought last summer was not insured and they were giving me until Dec. 23 to prove to them that it was insured or they would suspend the license for the car.  I dutifully sent them enough proof that I could have convinced a blind person that it was insured.  So right on cue on December 24 ( mailed on Dec. 23) I received a two separate envelopes in the mail from DMV.  Fortunately, the first one that I opened said that they had received the information and went on to admonish me about not insuring the car and never to do that again. I will note that the car had been insured since the day that I bought it.  Then I opened the second letter, it was a notice that DMV was suspending the license for the vehicle in question and that to get it reinstated I would have to prove to them that the car was insured and then pay a $14 fee to them.

So now I am thinking that I will copy both letters and envelopes and send a very nice letter to the Commissioner in charge of the DMV and ask him in some nice way if they have anybody working in the department with a brain.  Or maybe it should be how many of them does he have working there that do actually have a brain.

Yes, I went through the license plate thing with a car I bought in Arizona and brought to CA.  The seller  wanted the collector car plate back and I promised to send it to him.  Of course DMV wanted the plate also.  I flat refused to give it to the DMV clerk and did send it back to him.  I am sure that I didn't gain any favors with DMV on that one.  It seems to me that they have a basic set of rules and lots of latitude and will push you around as far as they can.  But a lot of the "rules" have nothing to back them up.  They just try to intimidate you and let you believe that they will give you a bad recommendation on your transaction if you don't exactly follow what they say.  Oh well enough about this subject.

Charley 

[TR3driver]

So now I am thinking that I will copy both letters and envelopes and send a very nice letter to the Commissioner in charge of the DMV and ask him in some nice way if they have anybody working in the department with a brain. 

Well, I guess at least that way, you'll know the reason why next time they lose your paperwork!
 

I got one of those computer generated nasty-grams too, on the Stag I placed on Planned Non-Op.  I just ignored it, since there is no requirement to insure a car that is not registered.  We'll see what happens if I ever get it back on the road again.

But seeing as it's supposed to get up to 65 today & warmer tomorrow, I'm still glad I live here rather than PA